Post by flamingkillamajig on Jan 30, 2012 6:49:03 GMT -5
Now i'm not entirely sure about this since vampires got a total revamp (haha whoops) but here are some tactics to use.
Most people say killing the leader is good but it doesn't seem to be as good anymore. There are still plenty of regeneration units in the game so a good dose of warpfire throwers is always handle and scorch is ok but not too great.
Normally to piss off most vampire counts players you should take a bunch of unbreakable and/or frenzied units. Considering VC can't elect to flee either that's one serious problem they have.
Since they have unstable when they lose combat by a lot it just means they will lose that many guys in their turn. Heavy hitting units that do a lot of damage are very desirable.
It's also a good idea to use units that don't roll to hit vs. the coven throne (many weapons teams and war machines as well as some monsters like the hellpit and other such auto-hit things like impact hits). The hellpit might not be the best thing to throw at it as the coven throne is a mount for a vampire lord or similar but it can still be taken down i'm sure. It's just one big unit open to cannons and such so a doomwheel would probably just wreck it.
Considering how more units have the vampire rule now trying to crumble them all might be a little tough. The odd thing is the army is now composed of above average initiative or really good initiative to the really poor initiative. This can be changed depending on how much the army book has been used to its full potential. Also the vampire units can march normally and won't crumble. However unlike other undead vampire models, large targets and ethereal units can only recover a wound per turn each. This means these units are very hard to recover and considering many of the stats for vargheists, vampire units and even the vargulf as well as giant war machines or chariots they will take a lot more to recover wounds.
Another problem though is now invocation of nehek can be boosted like many other VC spells to effect all units in an area. This means undead will raise a lot of undead so killing wizards esp. the general is going to be that much more important (rev up that fellblade warlord on bonebreaker and bring it to battle).
The fortunate thing about vampire counts is that they now count a lot of points for their vampire lords and depending on what they have they can be very limited. Depending on what wizards they take they'll have different spell lores they're limited to and vampire lords and normal vampires can get really points heavy esp. with a coven throne so they probably won't be super tooled up unless it's the only lord or hero on the field. Then there's the ghoul king vampires which are only level 1 and can't go up in wizard level and only know lore of the vampires.
Anyway if i had to say anything else about fighting vampire counts it's that you should hit the coven throne with stuff that hits instantly and save it for units with good leadership. You should use plenty of frenzied and unbreakable units against them to negate fear checks. You should watch out for an undead horde that advances to the front and weak and small vampire units that advance from the sides very quickly. Killing some vampires may be easier said than done (esp. if they're tooled around melee and have always strikes first or initiative 8 because they're ghoul kings) and crumble isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. However the main point of killing the leaders is to prevent more undead being risen and at times the augment spells which can be annoying even if they can't be cast more than once per magic phase even if dispelled.
Usually when facing ethereal units if you can't take them out any other way you should try combat res-ing them to death. If it is a chariot and undead this is esp. helpful as they still lose wounds for how much they lose a combat by and those particular units do much of their damage in charges. Ethereal units are pretty weak though so you should use magic if you can but if it's something stupid like a slann mage priest that's ethereal with an insane ward save then you should combat res it to death.
I know much of what i said is a bit iffy and inconclusive but i stand by the fear check parts (frenzy and unbreakable), the vampires flanking and being mostly weak as units, the magic holding the army together, the undead losing badly when they lose combat by a lot from dead guys (roll out your killing machines) and some knowledge on ethereal units. Also fellblade warlord and plenty of warpfire throwers won't hurt you. In fact any magical weapons should do just fine (in other words most skaven guns, some melee weapons and plenty of wargear). Remember only normal undead and cavalry like black knights can be risen easily.
Most people say killing the leader is good but it doesn't seem to be as good anymore. There are still plenty of regeneration units in the game so a good dose of warpfire throwers is always handle and scorch is ok but not too great.
Normally to piss off most vampire counts players you should take a bunch of unbreakable and/or frenzied units. Considering VC can't elect to flee either that's one serious problem they have.
Since they have unstable when they lose combat by a lot it just means they will lose that many guys in their turn. Heavy hitting units that do a lot of damage are very desirable.
It's also a good idea to use units that don't roll to hit vs. the coven throne (many weapons teams and war machines as well as some monsters like the hellpit and other such auto-hit things like impact hits). The hellpit might not be the best thing to throw at it as the coven throne is a mount for a vampire lord or similar but it can still be taken down i'm sure. It's just one big unit open to cannons and such so a doomwheel would probably just wreck it.
Considering how more units have the vampire rule now trying to crumble them all might be a little tough. The odd thing is the army is now composed of above average initiative or really good initiative to the really poor initiative. This can be changed depending on how much the army book has been used to its full potential. Also the vampire units can march normally and won't crumble. However unlike other undead vampire models, large targets and ethereal units can only recover a wound per turn each. This means these units are very hard to recover and considering many of the stats for vargheists, vampire units and even the vargulf as well as giant war machines or chariots they will take a lot more to recover wounds.
Another problem though is now invocation of nehek can be boosted like many other VC spells to effect all units in an area. This means undead will raise a lot of undead so killing wizards esp. the general is going to be that much more important (rev up that fellblade warlord on bonebreaker and bring it to battle).
The fortunate thing about vampire counts is that they now count a lot of points for their vampire lords and depending on what they have they can be very limited. Depending on what wizards they take they'll have different spell lores they're limited to and vampire lords and normal vampires can get really points heavy esp. with a coven throne so they probably won't be super tooled up unless it's the only lord or hero on the field. Then there's the ghoul king vampires which are only level 1 and can't go up in wizard level and only know lore of the vampires.
Anyway if i had to say anything else about fighting vampire counts it's that you should hit the coven throne with stuff that hits instantly and save it for units with good leadership. You should use plenty of frenzied and unbreakable units against them to negate fear checks. You should watch out for an undead horde that advances to the front and weak and small vampire units that advance from the sides very quickly. Killing some vampires may be easier said than done (esp. if they're tooled around melee and have always strikes first or initiative 8 because they're ghoul kings) and crumble isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. However the main point of killing the leaders is to prevent more undead being risen and at times the augment spells which can be annoying even if they can't be cast more than once per magic phase even if dispelled.
Usually when facing ethereal units if you can't take them out any other way you should try combat res-ing them to death. If it is a chariot and undead this is esp. helpful as they still lose wounds for how much they lose a combat by and those particular units do much of their damage in charges. Ethereal units are pretty weak though so you should use magic if you can but if it's something stupid like a slann mage priest that's ethereal with an insane ward save then you should combat res it to death.
I know much of what i said is a bit iffy and inconclusive but i stand by the fear check parts (frenzy and unbreakable), the vampires flanking and being mostly weak as units, the magic holding the army together, the undead losing badly when they lose combat by a lot from dead guys (roll out your killing machines) and some knowledge on ethereal units. Also fellblade warlord and plenty of warpfire throwers won't hurt you. In fact any magical weapons should do just fine (in other words most skaven guns, some melee weapons and plenty of wargear). Remember only normal undead and cavalry like black knights can be risen easily.