|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Jan 23, 2012 18:12:23 GMT -5
I've basically mentioned what i think of this earlier and i think it's good. The only thing i'm bummed about is the removal of the helm of commandment (allows one of your units in 12" of the wearer if not in combat to have his WS). Basically you'd could give a unit WS 7 or even WS 10 if you used the fencer's blades which give you WS 10. You can get your leader's WS up really high now with vampiric powers however. WS 9 vampire lords aren't hard to make. The regeneration banner and hand of dust are also gone. Regeneration banner was a +4 regeneration and hand of dust was a pretty good bound spell if i remember correctly. So sure we lost a decent amount of good items but the vampiric powers and new units are making up for it. We've got some new spells with one being like the last death magic spell. Vampires are pretty nasty now. There are other bad things as well (only generals can allow non-vampire units to march and they have to be within 12" of the general) but we also have the nasty new version of invocation of nehek and raise dead. Invocation of nehek raises d6+wizard level per casting of an infantry unit, you can raise 1+wizard level of anything else pretty much and finally vampires, large targets and ethereal units can only be raised one wound per casting of the invocation of nehek. Now believe it or not this actually means black knights have become disgusting. They have +2 armor and if a level 4 vampire lord keeps raising them up after they keep dying then it's one hard as hell unit to fully destroy. I mean if you don't take care of that vampire lord it's 5 black knights rising up per spell use every time that spell is successful.
|
|
Trickstick
Skavenslave
Psyker Extraordinaire, Director-General of the Respiration Corporation
Posts: 9
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 26, 2012 19:05:29 GMT -5
So, my old army was undead. However, this was back in 4th ed fantasy, so I haven't look at the rules in a long time. Hell, it was back when it was actually undead, before the Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts books came about. I have a simple question about the new book: how viable is an army without any vampires in it?
I hate vampires. I hate them a lot. I used to use the Lich Master, loads of skeletons, chariots and screaming skull catapults, finished off by a wight on a zombie dragon. I had a glance at the previous book and noticed my army style wasn't even legal. So has anything changed?
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Jan 26, 2012 20:06:29 GMT -5
It's completely viable actually. Of course if you mean no vampire units whatsoever like units with the vampire rule that means no vargheists, no varghulfs, no black coaches, no blood knights, no coven thrones and no vampire heroes so no vampiric powers, limited magic armor (possibly) and certain other things. Also vampire units are the only ones that can't crumble and don't need to be within 12" of the general to march (all other undead need to be within 12" of the general for marching)
However that being said you can still use master necromancers and necromancers and choose one to upgrade to raise skeletons beyond starting size. The also know lore of death and lore of the vampires. You will need at least one wizard leader to know lore of the vampires so that it can be your general though. Heinrich kemmler is definitely back as is his wight king buddy and kemmler has some interesting powers. I don't think you can use zombie dragons with necromancers but they can be mounted on an abyssal terror or a corpse cart.
Without vampires you can still use necromancers and master necromancers (the master necromancers are a new lord choice with the normal 100 pts of magic items available), black knights, grave guard, the new hexwraiths, crypt ghouls, skeletons, zombies (which are much better now), corpse carts, the mortis engine, cairn wraiths with the tomb banshees (they are both units and single characters now) and crypt horrors (which are tough as nails but have the lore that they drank vampire blood to get their power so fluff-wise it's a stretch if you want to use them).
It's a restrictive list and you may be able to use a couple other things as i think you can take an already existing monster as a rare choice without a mount. I'll have to check my vampire counts book again. Some of the stuff is really nice though. I'm looking forward to doing the double death shriek with a ghoul king on zombie dragon. In case you're wondering the ghoul king is still a vampire but only a level one vampire that has turned beastial. It can't go higher than a level one wizard unfortunately but it is pretty combat heavy.
Btw raising undead is also much easier now and there are new spells. Raise dead can be both zombies and skeletons now. Zombies and skeletons are both cheaper and zombies are much better. Raising all undead infantry is really easy (d6+your wizard level) esp. zombies (i think it was 2d6+wizard level and can be raised beyond starting size automatically) and raising any non-vampire, non-ethereal, non-large target model gives 1+your wizard level in guys. In other words a level 4 master necromancer can raise 5 black knights per successful casting of invocation of nehek and can do so multiple times each turn. That means you have 5 knights with +2 armor and above average stats coming back to live per successful casting from your level 4 wizard. So basically a necromancer army is about raising more undead than the enemy can handle and that's all there is to it.
|
|
Trickstick
Skavenslave
Psyker Extraordinaire, Director-General of the Respiration Corporation
Posts: 9
|
Post by Trickstick on Jan 26, 2012 20:27:14 GMT -5
I used to love raising a tonne of undead and throwing them at the enemy. I also remember Vanhal's Danse Macabre being really good for getting the hordes moving a bit quicker.
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Jan 26, 2012 20:35:22 GMT -5
If i remember correctly all spells except invocation of nehek (van hel's danse macabre and now hellish vigour) can only be used one a turn. However they now effect multiple units if i remember correctly so for each successful casting a bunch of guys near a wizard that does this go forward. I'm not sure how you'll feel about the mortis engine as it will eventually blow up and if you upgrade it so that it can add +2 for casting the lore of vampires then it benefits all that use said lore on everybody's side (your's, ally's and enemy's). The problem is this upgrade makes you roll twice on the miscast chart when you miscast and your opponent chooses the miscast result. However you can get a pretty high additional to cast and just imagine how easy it'll be to do invocation of nehek with a level 4 wizard and that upgrade. You'd get a +6 and +7 if you use a magic item for casting and dispell in the rulebook. A +7 to your number of dice rolled for casting is really high and it pretty much guarantees every two dice you roll for a weak spell will go off.
|
|
|
|
Post by petercooman123 on Apr 14, 2012 15:00:13 GMT -5
I just picked up the vamipres new book that i still had to get.
No more crumbling every turn if you have multiple magic users!!!
This made my day!!
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Apr 14, 2012 19:18:38 GMT -5
Well yes and no. They have to know 'lore of the vampires' and they still crumble somewhat. Your general also has to know lore of the vampires and i think has to be the highest leadership guy with lore of the vampires.
If i do vampire counts i'm gonna use the ghoul king. We need a ghoul king on foot if at all possible or at least a detachible ghoul king. For some reason the crypt horrors interest me. Toughness 5, str 4, mulitple poisoned attacks, stomp, fear and +5 regen. Well holy crap i just found a new unit i want. I'm probably gonna get a unit of 6 of them. Not to mention since they're undead and large they can get 1+wizard level in wounds back for every successful casting of invocation of nehek. 2 level 4 wizards with lore of the vampires would raise them back in no time. Also looking forward to using black knights. Black knight kits are extremely cheap and affordable now too. Blood knights i'm unsure about. They're ok.
|
|
|
|
Post by petercooman123 on Apr 15, 2012 16:41:40 GMT -5
Yeah blood knights are kinda all eggs in one basket but they are ok. I am for one gonna continue the way i was. One unit of each  |
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Apr 15, 2012 22:56:36 GMT -5
I actually kind of enjoy the new vampire counts battalion. I'm not sure how i feel about the 10 dire wolves but all the skeletons and ghouls can only be a good thing. I'm mostly looking forward to a ghoul king on the terrorgheist with the death shriek sword so i can have my double death shrieks of doom!
|
|
|
|
Post by petercooman123 on Apr 16, 2012 14:32:02 GMT -5
I find the dire wolves okay actually, but the way the eavy metal team painted them is just meh.
They benefit from blood and gore.
|
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Apr 16, 2012 14:40:10 GMT -5
I like the look of them but you'd think something that ghastly looking would be better than it is esp. during last army book. Really the only good thing about it last army book was that they moved fast and could outflank. Then they're undead so they can't even choose to flee from an enemy because they're unstable and unbreakable. At least now they're like str 4 on the charge.
I am very impressed with zombies now. They got boosted stats, they're very easy to raise and their points are less now. In fact zombie hordes may become even more prevalent as they'd be hard to fully stamp out and really easy to raise.
|
|
|
|
Post by petercooman123 on Apr 16, 2012 16:44:35 GMT -5
I can beat a zombie horde with my night goblin horde anytime  The crumbling is just too much |
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Apr 16, 2012 16:56:06 GMT -5
If i remember it's worse when you win combat. Depending on how you handle raising zombies you could be in for a loooooong combat. Lol i think unless magic was used that combat would last several turns for both players.
|
|
|
|
Post by petercooman123 on Apr 19, 2012 15:39:23 GMT -5
Why would it be worse if you won combat?  ?? |
|
|
|
Post by flamingkillamajig on Apr 19, 2012 20:00:59 GMT -5
I probably meant that it's better than it was before or the other way around. Losses work a bit different for VC than they used to is all i remember. VC are still hard but we won't have the helm of commandment plus grave guard with banner of the barrows and regen banner army of super death anymore. That's actually a good thing believe it or not. That death star was hard to face. WS 7 grave guard that can actually hit on 2's with str 6 if wielding great weapons and using regen. Not to mention they have toughness 4 with heavy armor. Grave guard go heavily nerfed in the current edition or at least they're not the death star they used to be. Zombies however got a huge boost stat-wise along with skeleton and zombie cost going down.
I think as far as units go i'm going to get some crypt horrors. I think i already said that but i think i'll get at least 3 bundled in that box set on saturday so at least my roommate can get in on the fun of them. I might just go for 10 black knights though. Man those new models look sexy.
|
|
??